[xquery-talk] not sure if I should laugh with big tears or cry with big tears...:-)))))

[Ihe Onwuka]

In may 2014 3 researchers write a paper entitled

The SQL++ Unifying Semi-structured Query Language, and an Expressiveness
Benchmark of SQL-on-Hadoop, NoSQL and NewSQL Databases

which has 65 references to JSONiq.


In April 2015 the same 3 researchers published

The SQL++ Query Language: Configurable, Unifying and Semi-structured

which has zero references to JSONiq.


Does anybody have any suggestions as to roundabout when they started
getting funding from Couchbase?






On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:38 PM, daniela florescu <dflorescu at me.com> wrote:

> Dear David (Dewitt)
>
> I had this discussion on Linkedin this morning
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/grp/post/54257-6010072547398336516
>
> Look at the last comment from CouchBase, defending his turf and telling me
> “We have SQL luminaries!”
>
> :-)))
>
> *****************************************************
>
> Show previous comments
>
>    1. [image: Ihe Onwuka]
>    <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=94457480&authType=name&authToken=8ZvS&trk=hp-feed-commenter-photo>
>    37m
>    Ihe Onwuka
>    <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=94457480&authType=name&authToken=8ZvS&trk=hp-feed-commenter-name>
>    Partly because the real reasons engineering reasons why SQL is
>    desirable as a query language have become subservient to the commercial
>    ones (non-techies are used to it and we already know it). A moments thought
>    and you will realise that is a formula for technological rigor mortis -
>    there would never be any progress. The engineering reasons are,
>    declarativity, logical and physical data independence and built in query
>    optimisation. These in turn brought several ergonomic advantages to
>    database development which hierarchical and network databases lacked. That
>    being the case a language like JSONiq that has those attributes wins but
>    what is happening here is not about science or engineering and if you give
>    an academic funding to solve a problem that has already been solved from an
>    engineering and semantic perspective he is not going to turn it down and to
>    be fair its' still an interesting question. God know's how much is being
>    spent on this and there is no guarantee of a product at the end. show
>    less
>    2. [image: Gerald Sangudi]
>    <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=5831393&authType=name&authToken=iRYT&trk=hp-feed-commenter-photo>
>    16m
>    Gerald Sangudi
>    <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=5831393&authType=name&authToken=iRYT&trk=hp-feed-commenter-name>
>    Dana, trust me, we have SQL luminaries :)
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> David, when this guy from CouchDB is boasting that they have “SQL
> luminaries”  working on this silly N1QL,
> I really hope he’s not talking about you….or no-one else on this list.
>
> I have a huge respect for you, and I would very much like to keep it this
> way.
>
> Whoever those “luminaries” this guy is talking about…. I guess that at
> some point we will need to have a PUBLIC scientific
> discussion.
>
> But I would like to keep it at the level of “scientific” discussion.
>
> Not “my language is transcendental, yours isn’t”  (!??).
>
> Ot threatening 60 years old people to be fired if they don’t say what you
> want them to say….
>
> Ot other little creepy stuff like that that companies do…..
>
> Best regards
> Dana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2015, at 8:13 PM, daniela florescu <dflorescu at me.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Microsoft people, (David, Michael, Donald)
>
> I KNOW for sure that, other then Oracle,  Microsoft is involved into this
> “agreement” around this totally shitty N1QL (WTF !???)
> (not sure yet about IBM… but about to figure that out …)
>
> I didn’t involve Microsoft publicly (yet) because  I (still) have respect
> for you three:
> David Dewitt, Donald Kossmann, and Michael Rys, and I didn’t want to hurt
> you, personally.
>
> Don’t disappoint me my kindness, please.
>
> If you get silly, and you personally get on the side of Oracle, Roger
> Bamford, Gary Bloom, and the rest of technical idiots on this cc,
> ******I DO NOT GUARANTEE POLITICAL ASYLUM********
>
> PLEASE DO NOT BE TECHNICALLY STUPID.
>
> YOU KNOW THAT WHATEVER YOU DO, I WILL BE SMARTER…..and I know more on the
> subject then all of you put together.
>
>  I also know that you personally might not be involved in this JSON
> decision.
>
> Please be kind and pass along my message to the Microsoft   “authorities”
> in charge: STAY FUCKING CLEAR FROM HURTING JSONiq.
>
> From now on, I will take no prisoners, and ANY technical stupidity will be
> VISIBLE on print.
>
> The beauty of social media…...
>
> Best regards
> Dana
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *daniela florescu <dflorescu at me.com>
> *Date: *June 3, 2015 at 7:50:25 PM PDT
> *To: *ihe.onwuka at gmail.com
> *Cc: *"talk at x-query.com" <talk at x-query.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [xquery-talk] not sure if I should laugh with big tears
> or cry with big tears...:-)))))*
>
> What I think will happen is the following:
>
> 1. ISO will look at them like they are crazy when they send a language
> specification in Powerpoint
>
> 2. They’ll scratch  their heads and probable write SOMETHING that ( kind
> of ) makes sense
>
> 3. That SOMETHING written up will extend (some bastardized subset of) SQL
>
> 4. In the process, they forget that SQL in 2015 looks like THIS :-))))))))
> http://savage.net.au/SQL/sql-99.bnf.html
> (good luck, guys!!!!   You complain that extending XQuery is hard. Well,
> try THIS then :-)  Ha, Ha, Ha …..))
>
> 5. That SOMETHING will look just like SQL-XML,. which disappeared in the
> hole it came from... as soon as it was on print….
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL/XML
>
> 6. They will pay a lot of “bloggers” to convince gullible people that SQL
> is the perfect “query” language
> for semi-structured data. YES. But only if you have negative IQ and have
> no idea about semi-structured data.
> (unfortunately there are lots of those)
>
> Some of those guys already argue with me (very annoyingly to be honest,
> and without ANY knowledge of databases) on Linkedin
> (if those companies choose people to argue with me… at least choose
> someone who can hold a scientific argument with me…. at least
> make it a little fun for me….please …..)
>
> As an example, please check this:
> https://www.linkedin.com/grp/post/54257-6010072547398336516
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> And I just told you my best guess. It’s nothing then a simple “hunch”,
> without any proof to it.
>
> The three companies that “make" this N1QL a success are: CouchDB,
> MarkLogic and Oracle.
>
> I worked long enough at Oracle to recognize the “touch” of stupid
> politics, in top of a basis of bad technology.
> And MarkLogic, given their executive people are only coming from Oracle,
> is likely to behave the same.
>
> And I right, guys ???  Oracle ? MarkLogic ?   Any comments ?
>
> ======================
>
> Did I tell you, guys  ???  I LOVE guess games …. :-)))))))
>
> I enjoy them !!!!!
>
> Bring some more !!!!
>
> Have a great evening everybody,
> Dana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All that effort into designing a language that has no published
> specification, will almost certainly never be a published standard and
> therefore no financial institution will be prepared to pay a N1QL for.
>
> Stupid is as Stupid Does.
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:15 PM, daniela florescu <dflorescu at me.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I should cry with big tears…and not laugh at all.
>>
>> Even smart people like Kurt Cagle would like to see this “inexact science
>> language”  (because there are two kinds of
>>  sciences, one exact, and one inexact…..)   standardized as ISO ….
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/n1ql-couchbase-brings-sql-json-kurt-cagle
>>
>> The world is weird.
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2015, at 8:38 PM, daniela florescu <dflorescu at me.com> wrote:
>>
>> I copy and paste here from Linkedin my conversation with one of the top
>> scientists of on of the top NoSQL databases: Couchbase….
>>
>> "Please consider real world deployments, not academic endeavors....This
>> is still an inexact science” :-))))))))
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> Dana,
>>
>> Please consider real world deployments, not academic endeavors....This is
>> still an inexact science.
>>
>> On 6/2/15, 10:38 AM, Daniela Florescu wrote:
>> --------------------
>> Dear,
>>
>> you have a query language implemented, and you have no specification
>> written for it !???
>>
>> That's weird to say the least.
>>
>> I never heard of a programming language (because a query language is a
>> programming language...), whose specification is only in Powerpoint.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't have time.
>>
>> If you have a specification written, please send it to me, and I'll give
>> you an honest feedback.
>>
>> Best
>> Dana
>>
>> On 6/2/15, 10:33 AM, XXXXl wrote:
>> --------------------
>> Daniela,
>>
>> Couchbase Connect 15 going on this week at Levis Stadium in Santa Clara.
>> You should check it out. We are talking up our query language N!QL.
>>
>>
>> http://www.cvent.com/events/couchbase-connect-15/event-summary-b7744ca960364b75aba41de42cbef19e.aspx
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/redir/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecvent%2Ecom%2Fevents%2Fcouchbase-connect-15%2Fevent-summary-b7744ca960364b75aba41de42cbef19e%2Easpx&urlhash=3ZMl>
>>
>>    -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk at x-query.com
>> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk at x-query.com
> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk at x-query.com
> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
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